Weapons you'd like to see

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Weapons you'd like to see

Postby Antagonist » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:18 pm

In keeping with KISS, most of us agreed that it would be for the best if we tried to keep it Quake style for the first release. One weapon for each function. Does everyone think this is smart, or is there some other opinion?

I would like to see the following guns in a first version:

Pistol: Beretta 92 FS Centurion
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I think it would be good to start with a pistol that is in 9mm with okay capacity. Not go crazy with a very high power and low capacity, or very low power and high capacity. This is my favorite variant of the Beretta as it is the only model of the gun that is in a suitable size for its power (9mm) and capacity (15 rnds). Smaller profile than the original Beretta 92 FS. I believe this gun was in service in TS 1.5 and 2.0 before being replaced by the meatier Beretta 92 FS.

Optional features: Akimbo'd, Suppressor

SMG: MP5K-PDW

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For some reason this variant of the MP5K isn't very popular in games anymore. I always thought it looked very cool and the folding stock makes it viable for akimbo use (in movie world). I think it's also easy to balance an SMG that shoots 9mm. Some of you will remember the cool but overpowered MAC10 (45 ACP). It's even possible to put 20 or 25 rnd mags in the MP5k without gun nuts crying over it (even though it's uncommon to have), if 30 rounds becomes too much to balance.

Optional features: Akimbo'd, Suppressor

Shotgun: Mossberg 500 Cruiser

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It's just a classic shortened shotgun. Fucking sweet as hell.

Optional feature: uuuh.... it's a shotgun.

Assault rifle: AK-102

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This is the only super modern gun I thought looked stylish enough that I would like it. It's still 30 rounds, it's still 5.56 (not 7.62, no really. You're thinking of other AK-100 series weapons). I think a lot of us are tired of seeing the M4A1 in every video game.

Optional feature: red dot sight?

Sniper rifle: SAKO TRG/42 8.60x70mm (.338 Lapua)

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Super powerful gun, but bolt action with only five rounds. .338 Lapua is a badass round, and it would definitely kill in one shot in the right spot of the chest. This wouldn't be as hard to balance as a semi auto 50. cal portable cannon. I think that a game that is like TS has the potential to still be balanced with a one-hit kill gun. I'm thinking that this would sort of be a combination of the barret and contender. It should be so accurate that novices can't get a lucky hit in. It should have an (unrealistic) 4x zoom that can be clicked twice to achieve an 8x zoom, or the zoom in mode could be switched with the firing mode toggle key.

Optional feature: Long range only scope for those big maps, 8x and 12x zoom.

Combat knife: Extrema Ratio Col Moschin

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This is a really badass knife design that I have always liked. If you all would rather have a rambo knife, understand though. Replaces your melee. It adds a slash that deals more damage but takes a while to put back in its sheathe as in BF: BC2.

Throwing knife: Two gnarly, nasty looking throwing knives

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These huge knives remind me a lot of Fallout, so I think that they are cool. If they are supposed to be one-hit-killers, then I think that two knives are fucking enough, because you can pick them up anyway. More realistic physics than TS would be cool. Ability to lob knives would be awesome too. Remember SOF II?

Yeah, I know these guns may seem like keeping it pretty traditional but hey it's just suggestions guys.
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Re: Weapons you'd like to see

Postby Dan » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:34 pm

I agree with the general layout of the weapons but I'd switch some of them out for more retro guns.

I'm generally thinking 1980's movies here. I know we don't need another M4 in game. The AK was generally not featured in 80's movies too much because of import restrictions from Soviet bloc countries- movies like Red Dawn had to mock their rifles up with FInnish or Egyptian guns. Instead, why not a classic M16?

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I think the MP5 is the right choice for the SMG, but instead of the compact one I would use the old school MP5 Bruce Willis used in Die Hard.

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I'm not sure about the sniper rifle, I would like to see a wood stock.

I don't have any preference on the knives.
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Re: Weapons you'd like to see

Postby Antagonist » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:35 pm

The SAKO is a Finnish rifle. This means that it is so pr0 it sink in sea.

Ok so should we be thinking a special theme instead of semi-modern guns?

Maybe if we imagine a theme? Something like undercover MI6 or NSA vs terrorists in the 70s? Disillusioned American vietnam veterans turned hitmen? What are we going for lol? Cowboy Bebop / Blade Runner Retro-futurism?
Last edited by Antagonist on Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Weapons you'd like to see

Postby Wish » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:39 pm

First things first: I'm against anything like the Barrett or Contender. They're just asking for trouble. In fact, I'm against all sniper rifles. An assault rifle with a scope is more than enough for your sniping needs at TS ranges.

Anyway

I'm all for a small weaponlist at first (though I'd like to see more than one pistol, even in the first release - not dozens, just two or three at least), so obviously I'm not suggesting all of these - just putting them out there. I'd like to see more guns that you don't as often see in games. TS had some that a lot of people had never played with before, and I think that novelty was good for the game.


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Not a 5946 specifically necessarily - but if you think about it, you never see Smith and Wesson autoloaders in games. Personally, I like the 5946 - 15+1 9mm, just like a 92FS, except it hasn't been in every game ever created already.

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The only Glocks you ever see in games are full-sized, and it's almost always a Glock 18. Why not one of the many others? They're all cool.

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CZ75 - arguably the finest 9mm ever manufactured. Another 15+1 and convenient replacement for the Beretta, relatively rare in games. They had one in the Opera.

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Kahr handguns. Good guns, becomingly increasingly common. I've never seen one in a game, and I've only seen one as a replacement model. Ever.

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Amusingly, I was going to post this exact shotgun as well.

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Browning HP. It's been in some games, but it's got class.

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Smith and Wesson Model 10. Thirty-eight special. Why do revolvers in games always have to be magnums? This is the bread and butter double action revolver of the past 100 years. It's also one of the best firearms I've ever handled.

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Seen in games, but not as much as the 92FS. Put this in there and when it's switched to burst mode, have an animation where the player pulls down the foregrip and holds it.

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Mini Uzi. this is an insanely cool gun that never got its due, despite being in TS.

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Tokarev. Not just because of Hard Boiled.

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You know you want it.



Another big weapon suggestion that can increase the arsenal without raising balancing problems is using compatible guns. For example: The 92FS, CZ-75, Glock 19, Smith and Wesson 5906, and countless other handguns have 15+1 in 9mm. All of these could be included, simply different models on the same weapon code. So they all handle exactly alike, but it brings a personal touch to your weapon choice. Much better than being stuck with only one pistol.
Last edited by Wish on Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Weapons you'd like to see

Postby Sif » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:44 pm

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Re: Weapons you'd like to see

Postby Antagonist » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:48 pm

Something that would be cool to see is having more than one model per gun, like Wish said here. It seems that whenever us guys talk about guns, the problem isn't that we can't think of any, but rather the opposite. Maybe in the future, there is room for hundreds of weapons. Every racing game has different cars, but there's always the individual driving them that is the most important factor. You can change the color of the car, even pimp it with some shit that makes no difference. This shit has even leaked over into FPS games before, just look at Halo and it's shoulders and helmet types. Fuck, man this could be the answer to unlockable equipment that is still balanced. Shit yeah. You could pimp your guns with all kinds of shit when you do different steam achievements. Good thinking, Wish. Our game could be like the racing game of FPSes, in terms of customizing.

But yeah. That shit is for the future.

You all thinking the MP5k is dum? : ( Okay. I think it would be good to have an smg with a folding stock, because it's more easily explainable why you can fire two at the same time. "LOL IT IS BECAUSE THE STOCK IS FOLDED AND TAKES LESS SPACE HEHE".
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Re: Weapons you'd like to see

Postby Sif » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:53 pm

Browning HP, Colt 1911, M16A1, CAR-15, and Rem 870 are a must.
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Re: Weapons you'd like to see

Postby ThinRedPaste » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:58 pm

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1911. no gold, nothing fancy. just a decent 1911.
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Mateba model 6 unica. we've gotta have a magnum, and I really dont want it to be a deagle or bull.
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OTS-33 Pernach. 9x18mm, full auto. low damage, high output option for the stuntman who loves to spray.
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sawed off remington m870
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gotta have an m4, or in this case an hk416.
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Re: Weapons you'd like to see

Postby Wish » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:02 pm

Antagonist wrote:Something that would be cool to see is having more than one model per gun, like Wish said here. It seems that whenever us guys talk about guns, the problem isn't that we can't think of any, but rather the opposite. Maybe in the future, there is room for hundreds of weapons. Every racing game has different cars, but there's always the individual driving them that is the most important factor. You can change the color of the car, even pimp it with some shit that makes no difference. This shit has even leaked over into FPS games before, just look at Halo and it's shoulders and helmet types. Fuck, man this could be the answer to unlockable equipment that is still balanced. Shit yeah. You could pimp your guns with all kinds of shit when you do different steam achievements. Good thinking, Wish. Our game could be like the racing game of FPSes, in terms of customizing.

But yeah. That shit is for the future.

You all thinking the MP5k is dum? : ( Okay. I think it would be good to have an smg with a folding stock, because it's more easily explainable why you can fire two at the same time. "LOL IT IS BECAUSE THE STOCK IS FOLDED AND TAKES LESS SPACE HEHE".


I like the MP5K in spite of the Matrix.

But man, with dudes like Millenia and Flakk running around, not to mention the plethora of material people would no doubt be willing to contribute, we could be rolling in gats in no time. And I'm all about the big arsenal. It's what helped get me into TS in the first place. CHRISTOPHER WALKEN AGREES http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZbckwYY9r4


The start small policy is for finely tuned gameplay - balancing concerns. Multiple weapons handling identically wouldn't compromise that. There'd be no lack of content. Millenia's portfolio alone has enough guns for like fifteen Mad Max sequels in it.
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Re: Weapons you'd like to see

Postby Dan » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:16 pm

I really like the idea of multiple weapons/same stats. The only issue I see with that would be having unique sounds to go along with each new weapon.
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Re: Weapons you'd like to see

Postby Wish » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:23 pm

Not an issue. They wouldn't be the same weapon with different models - they would be separate weapons, just with identical properties with regard to function - damage/recoil, etc. They'd all have different models, skins, sounds - even anims, potentially. (though the anims would all have to be timed the same)

Another variation on this suggestion is not just models, but skins. You pick a 1911. Then select blue/matte/stainless, or two tone. People who are all about style will go nuts for this feature. Combined with multiple handguns and such, that's getting pretty droolworthy.
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Re: Weapons you'd like to see

Postby Shogi » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:24 pm

Well obviously there are many choices for guns and as we discussed in terms of balance we need a few roles:

light damage + many bullets/high ROF
medium
heavy + slow/low ammo.

Now here's a new idea- we break selection down by caliber. Say your menu look like this:

Pistol
Rifle
Shotgun
Other

Pistol would break down like this:

9mm - beretta, glock, sig, etc
.45 - usp, 1911, etc
357 - magnum, python, raging bull

The damages for guns in the same category would basically be the same, therefore making the choice beyond caliber purely aesthetic. Obviously there are many other calibers than those 3 but this is just an example. Could work for rifles too I guess. It also doesn't have to be caliber, the idea is simply to have a behavior group so that we can add in many guns that are similar.

As far as what guns to have in the game, I'm quite fond of the USP, C96, 1911, sig 226. I'm all for having unusual guns though, the Khar 98 is pretty sweet, CZ's too. BHP too. Lr300, HK416, m14, m468, UMP, p90, L86, would all be pretty cool guns to have. Some sort of sawed off shotgun is a must.
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Re: Weapons you'd like to see

Postby Antagonist » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:30 pm

I think we should have unusual guns, but I don't think we should strive to be original just for the sake of it.

What kind of setting are we going for?

ProTip: show
Holy shit maybe we could have different maps that only allow vietnam era guns, for instance. Sven Coop style.
Last edited by Antagonist on Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Weapons you'd like to see

Postby Wish » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:30 pm

Easy there, tiger. Deep breaths.
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Re: Weapons you'd like to see

Postby ThinRedPaste » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:32 pm

I'm all for this idea of having a huge arsenal but a limited number of weapons to balance. Normally it would present a problem for a mod team, but the TS community has a large pool of skilled modelers/skinners/animators who are probably all willing to help out, so I think there could be a sub-team just dedicated to churning out new guns. Hell, depending on the engine we go with, its pretty feasible that I could bang out a full set of weapon animations every few days. If it winds up on source, I think i could still use ye olde milkshape for that. Otherwise, I need to step up my efforts to learn a new program.
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