Alternative to Classes: "Perks"

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Alternative to Classes: "Perks"

Postby Hadji|DP » Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:57 pm

Although I agree with Vino's feelings about classes, I understand the guiding principle behind classes. Classes point to players valid ways to play the game, and lower the skill curve. This general idea of lowering the skill curve is a good idea game mechanics wise, but in this game it would go against the loadout based gameplay achieved in TS. I propose a perk system that is not unlike the one found in Action Half Life. It points to new players how to play the game, but gives options to experienced players to experiment by matching loadouts with specific perks. Not only that, a perk system can be used cosmetically to strengthen the "action film" aspect of the game.

I don't pretend to have any good ideas for action film based perks, so this thread is for those who do have those ideas.
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Re: Alternative to Classes: "Perks"

Postby Sif » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:00 am

Instead of picking up perk spinny things we could make it like an actual item or something that could be dropped and picked back up.
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Re: Alternative to Classes: "Perks"

Postby Dan » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:01 am

I don't like the idea of the "perk" because it implies that taking a perk is purely advantageous. I think something like "Style" or "Trademark" would work better. Selecting a Style (they'd be optional) would give you one advantage and one disadvantage to balance it.
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Re: Alternative to Classes: "Perks"

Postby Hadji|DP » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:02 am

Style is much better.
Again, I have no good ones, and I only post this as a game mechanic alternative to a class-based system.
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Re: Alternative to Classes: "Perks"

Postby Antagonist » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:09 am

How about you get to make characters with different stats and store them like in an MMORPG? It should be pretty easy on U3 engine. But simplified as hell:

AGILITY (MORE STUNTS) |-----------------------------------| FIREPOWER (MORE EQUIPMENT SPACE)

Fucking.
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Re: Alternative to Classes: "Perks"

Postby Vino » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:20 am

Hadji|DP wrote:Although I agree with Vino's feelings about classes, I understand the guiding principle behind classes. Classes point to players valid ways to play the game, and lower the skill curve.


The solution here is that all ways of playing the game should be valid. Ideally there are no newbie mistakes, because if a newbie does something that is due to an assumption he carries into this game from previous games then it doesn't penalize him.

For example, in Digitanks I have Resistors which were originally designed to be defensive vehicles. You were supposed to find a place to park them, hit the "Fortify" button, and let them defend your base. But then people started getting groups of them and attacking the enemy with them which worked horribly of course. The solution was a redesign that made the Resistors a viable offensive unit as well. Now nobody makes the mistake of using a unit the wrong way because any time somebody makes a newbie mistake, I change the game so that it doesn't penalize them for doing it. Between CF and Digitanks I've become quite proficient in doing this.

Anyhow the point is, we won't need classes, we'll figure out through playtesting what the newbie mistakes are and develop ways of mitigating them. In TS a classic newbie mistake was to buy every single weapon possible, which would penalize them by making them slow and a big target. Solutions are many. From a usability perspective, you can present "preset configs" that are smartly chosen and don't penalize players that much, or design the UI so that picking up too many weapons has more obvious consequences. From a design perspective, you can limit the number of weapons a player can hold (Seriously how can you carry five weapons on your body? Do you need more than three?) From a gameplay perspective, you can cap the speed penalty at 3 weapons so that the 4th doesn't make you slower than the 3rd. I don't really like any of those ideas terribly much but I haven't put my brain to it, I'm sure there could be better ones.

edit: I'm an ass because I never responded to the Perks themselves. Would you care to explain more about your suggested Perks? I never played AHL that much to remember.
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Re: Alternative to Classes: "Perks"

Postby Dan » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:27 am

From a design perspective, you can limit the number of weapons a player can hold (Seriously how can you carry five weapons on your body? Do you need more than three?)




As useless as it was, my favorite thing to do in TS was to load up as many weapons as I possibly could. Once one weapon was empty, instead of reloading, I'd throw it away and draw the next one. I kept doing this until I was completely unarmed. Felt totally badass, like Keanu in the lobby scene.
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Re: Alternative to Classes: "Perks"

Postby Vino » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:29 am

Yeah, true. That kind of thing is why I didn't like that idea. There's a good answer to this problem I guarantee it, it's just a matter of thinking it through enough to find the solution.
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Re: Alternative to Classes: "Perks"

Postby Dan » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:34 am

I don't remember what AHL had, but I remember Opera had disciplines like Precision (I think that made you more accurate) or Perception (which showed you how much ammo you had because the game had absolutely no HUD.)
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Re: Alternative to Classes: "Perks"

Postby Hadji|DP » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:39 am

Vino wrote:edit: I'm an ass because I never responded to the Perks themselves. Would you care to explain more about your suggested Perks? I never played AHL that much to remember.


Essentially, as part of your loadout, you select a Perk/Style that gives you an advantage over your opponents, but your opponents had equal access to the same and other advantages. In AHL they were things like extra ammunition, a holster to have another pistol, etc. I even think Kung Fu was one of the perks you were allowed to have, which is an interesting thought to finally solve this melee question. (After all, who would want to choose the option to fight with no guns when you could just have extra ammo, more damage, or extra guns?)

I wish I had better examples but I am scatterbrained at the moment...
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Re: Alternative to Classes: "Perks"

Postby Wish » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:41 am

faggotron 5000 wrote:I don't remember what AHL had, but I remember Opera had disciplines like Precision (I think that made you more accurate) or Perception (which showed you how much ammo you had because the game had absolutely no HUD.)


That's an excellent point. Those disciplines didn't seriously cramp individuality since there was so much gear in that game. Their effects were pretty understated, and I don't think they affected equipment at all.

Even so, I'm not sure they would feel right here. Even a small sense of being locked into one aptitude is too constricting.

And AHL just had weapons and equipment, no classes or anything.
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Re: Alternative to Classes: "Perks"

Postby Hadji|DP » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:46 am

Wish wrote:And AHL just had weapons and equipment, no classes or anything.


Oops.
Replace equipment with perks and you essentially have what I'm trying to get at. Essentially something that isn't a weapon so it can't be taken away from you and gives you gameplay options others may or may not have.
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Re: Alternative to Classes: "Perks"

Postby Len » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:00 pm

The proposed Schtick list from The Opera R2 was pretty badass and might have some cool ideas. Wish I could find it.
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Re: Alternative to Classes: "Perks"

Postby Antagonist » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:16 pm

The schticks were kind of lame in the original : (
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Re: Alternative to Classes: "Perks"

Postby ThinRedPaste » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:37 pm

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I guess if the effects of the perks were minor, suited various playstyles, and had an offset to make you slightly worse at an opposite playstyle, I could deal. I think I'd prefer not, though.
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