Accuracy Decay, Kickback, and Aiming

No sólo tacos y guitarras.

Accuracy Decay, Kickback, and Aiming

Postby Hadji|DP » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:50 pm

In The Specialists much of the aiming was dependent on re-aligning your HUD crosshairs to your target after each shot, making the accuracy decay of the actual weapons not too much of an issue.

However, the general feel of gun mechanics seems to be going toward an accuracy-decay heavy direction in order to limit the usefulness of automatic rifles. In The Specialists, since accuracy decay was not much of an issue, as long as you had good mouse control rifles could dominate at all ranges, and SMGs dominated at close and mid range. This game will be different, obviously, but with accuracy decay being considered as the controlling aspect for rifles, the question should be asked:

How severe should the kickback (viewkick) of weapons be?

These two mechanics, along with damage and weight, can be used in tandem to be able to control how weapons "should" be used in certain situations, leaving it up to the player to find his/her way around these issues through movement, stunting, positioning, mouse control, aiming, to overcome what should be thought of as inherent hurdles to leap over. For example, as a general guideline:

Pistols:
- Med Kickback
- 0 - Low decay
- Low - Med Damage
- Low Weight

Shotguns:
- High Kickback
- Low - Mid decay
- Med - High damage
- Med Weight

SMGs
- Med Kickback
- Med - High decay
- Low - Mid damage
- Low Weight

Semi-Auto Rifles
- Med - High Kickback
- Low - Med decay
- Med - High Damage
- High Weight

Autmoatic Rifles
- Med - High Kickback
- Med - High decay
- Med damage
- High Weight

Or if we wanted to do things by a weapon-by-weapon basis, each gun could have a set amount of "points" for each of these classes and include ammunition per magazine/clip as a restriction, for example:
(Each gun must use 15 "points", the more points the more "positive" it is in that regard)

Beretta:
- Control (how forgiving is the kickback): oo
- Accuracy: ooooo
- Damage: ooo
- Weight: oooo
- Ammo: o

AK-47:
- Control: oooo
- Accuracy: o
- Damage: ooooo
- Weight: o
- Ammo: oooo

Just a way to flesh out the aiming/gun mechanics without having to throw any real numbers down. Also, Aiming Mechanics general.
User avatar
Hadji|DP
 
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:10 pm

Re: Accuracy Decay, Kickback, and Aiming

Postby Vino » Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:25 pm

A) You have the right idea, except that over time I've come to the opinion that recoil is a horrible way to balance a weapon. Most modern games don't have it at all.
B) Most of this will have to be fine-tuned during development, anything we say here is just plain guessing.
[ Tw | Fb | G+ ]
User avatar
Vino
We'll see
 
Posts: 3976
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 7:25 pm
Location: Cary, NC

Re: Accuracy Decay, Kickback, and Aiming

Postby Antagonist » Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:40 pm

Yeah, I tried playing TS a bit today and every time I use a rifle, it's almost like being given godmode. As long as you don't let the mouse drift, there is no better gun in the game than the M4.

All the wrong guns were given accuracy kickback.
Image
[Stink.inc | Antagonist]
User avatar
Antagonist
 
Posts: 2247
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: in yo stupid face

Re: Accuracy Decay, Kickback, and Aiming

Postby BullHorn » Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:43 pm

This thread will be either the rise or fall of this game. The weapons must FEEL GOOD and yet have balance.
[Stink.Inc | BullHorn]
User avatar
BullHorn
 
Posts: 1381
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:22 am
Location: The Middle East

Re: Accuracy Decay, Kickback, and Aiming

Postby Oreo » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:46 pm

I have to admit, I like the feel of guns that kick. It's a visual representation of my gun having an effect in the world, and when stronger weapons have more kick, it's a simple way to explain to the player which weapons do more damage. However, with that said, I do think accuracy decay is a good way to make sure that no control setup will be able to compensate for the weapon's control-ability. I propose that all weapons have some level of view kick. However, weapons that are semi auto would have nothing but view kick, while weapons that are burst fire or automatic have a reduced view kick, but ALSO have slight accuracy decay. I think with the proper amounts of each, the automatic weapons could do as much damage as the semi auto weapons, but have a bit more randomness to them as a trade-off (with crouching and what not reducing the effects of either, of course).
Click Dante For My YouTube Page
Image
User avatar
Oreo
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:00 pm

Re: Accuracy Decay, Kickback, and Aiming

Postby TOGSolid » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:53 pm

Vino wrote:A) You have the right idea, except that over time I've come to the opinion that recoil is a horrible way to balance a weapon. Most modern games don't have it at all.
B) Most of this will have to be fine-tuned during development, anything we say here is just plain guessing.

Most modern games feature airsoft weapons. I hate how a lot of guns these days have almost zero recoil. It just feels bad. However, the reverse is also true as I learned in 2.1. Tons of recoil also feels bad. There's a very comfy middle ground that is worth experimenting with.

However, weapons that are semi auto would have nothing but view kick, while weapons that are burst fire or automatic have a reduced view kick, but ALSO have slight accuracy decay. I think with the proper amounts of each, the automatic weapons could do as much damage as the semi auto weapons, but have a bit more randomness to them as a trade-off (with crouching and what not reducing the effects of either, of course).

This is basically where I'd like to see the guns go. Autos bouncing around with high recoil feels super crappy, so tons of accuracy decay works fine.
ImageImageImage
User avatar
TOGSolid
 
Posts: 1843
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Ketchikan, Alaska

Re: Accuracy Decay, Kickback, and Aiming

Postby Dan » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:58 pm

TOGSolid wrote:Most modern games feature airsoft weapons. I hate how a lot of guns these days have almost zero recoil. It just feels bad. However, the reverse is also true as I learned in 2.1. Tons of recoil also feels bad. There's a very comfy middle ground that is worth experimenting with.


I always thought there should have been a "ceiling" with recoil view kickback. That is, a limit on the amount of view kickback that happens. If you empty the magazine in one burst on a rifle, you shouldn't be pointing at the ceiling of the room- the gun will rise to a set point maybe 40 or 45 degrees upward, at which point additional shots will no longer have view kickback. Or have the view kickback decay linearly, with less and less kick on each shot. Long bursts would still be inaccurate, but not ridiculous.
ImageImage
Dan
 
Posts: 1007
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:58 pm

Re: Accuracy Decay, Kickback, and Aiming

Postby bryt » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:25 am

recoil is as much aesthetic as it is gameplay in my opinion. The game should have it enough to balance players against each other, and thats all. The rest I think can be done through good animation and camera work. We can tweak the aesthetics into making recoil feel more substantial than it really is. The trick will be figuring out the perfect mix.
User avatar
bryt
 
Posts: 796
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:57 pm


Return to Double Action Development

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron