Idea: Slow-motion/Style/Universal Meter

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Idea: Slow-motion/Style/Universal Meter

Postby Hadji|DP » Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:03 am

bryitis wrote:
TOGSolid wrote:This gave me the side idea of having slow-mo be a buildable meter that increases through being super stylish and have the player be able to manually pause the slow mo instead of it being a one shot item.
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I like that. It sounds like the kind of mechanic that would really elevate the gameplay for me. But perhaps we should consider the possibility that player's shouldn't be able to earn more style points while in slowmo with such a system.


In many games that are considered to have deep game mechanics, meter building (or economy management) is considered to be integral to why the game has a high skill ceiling. From a previous thread, TOG suggested the above idea, where slow-motion is not a pick-up item but a meter that is built through various ways (kills, stunting, kill streaks, MELEE, maybe even to balance it GETTING SHOT builds meter, but being killed loses all your meter).

What do you think about a slow-motion meter? This thread is specifically for the concept of using meter to build new gameplay experiences, and what kind of experiences such a mechanic would enforce.

I for one would like to see a 4 section meter, much like a fighting game, where various levels not only allow for more time, but a full bar enables the slow-pause pickup from The Specialists.

EDIT: Subject name changed because the discussion has now turned into how awesome an all-around style/universal meter would be in adding a new dimension to the aim well/shoot well/move well style of FPS skill: managing meter well.
Last edited by Hadji|DP on Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Idea: Slow-motion Meter

Postby Vino » Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:45 am

Slow motion meter is a good idea in my opinion. It opens up the slowmo a little bit. My concern with the slowmo is that all the top players in the server get all of it and the newbies get shut out.

Lots of action-style games have slowmo meters so it wouldn't be unusual, it'd just be an issue of deciding which actions charge your meter. The goal I think would be that it's fair to everybody, but not random and skilled players can still make use of it. It should give skilled players a slight advantage.

edit: the more I think about it, the more I like TOG's suggestion. Shooting at someone while doing a stunt is a great way to give newbies access while keeping it real for the skilled players. Mucho gusto.
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Re: Idea: Slow-motion Meter

Postby Hadji|DP » Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:13 am

MY suggestion would be to make most ANYTHING you do build meter. Specifically the following conditions, ranked by how much it builds your meter:

Shooting your gun at a player
Shooting your gun at a player while stunting
Getting shot at
Getting hit
Hitting a player
Killing a Player
Killing a player while stunting
Killing a player with a headshot
Killing a player with a headshot while stunting
Killing another player x seconds after a kill
Killing another player x seconds after a kill with a headshot
Killing another player x seconds after a kill while stunting
Killing another player x seconds after a kill with a headshot while stunting

So essentially, all players will be able to build meter fairly quickly, but only GOOD players will build meter fast.
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Re: Idea: Slow-motion Meter

Postby BullHorn » Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:35 am

i love slow mo meter man
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Re: Idea: Slow-motion Meter

Postby ThinRedPaste » Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:38 pm

be careful! You're travelling down a dangerous road toward the whole game being in slow motion. I like the meter idea, but I really don't want this game to turn into Wet. Wet would have been a really awesome game, if every stunt (and you're CONSTANTLY STUNTING) wasnt 20% speed slowmo, but it gets so bogged down with that shit that its just boring.

So no, I don't agree with everything you do building slow meter. in fact, I don't think anything short of a stunt kill should do it.

also, this seems like a good time to bring up an idea tog had ages ago - Dead Man Walking. You walk (not run) into a room, keep a steady stride, and gun people down without changing speed. the more people you can get like this, the more [some kind of bonus] you get. maybe that bonus is slow meter, or maybe its a bit of health regen to help you keep the streak alive. It would work well with the rifles, imo. you could take advantage of the rifle being a better gun, while using it in a rifle-y fashion, and still build meter. This way, rifle stunting could be wildly inaccurate and virtually useless, but they'd still have a way to be stylish.
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Re: Idea: Slow-motion Meter

Postby LazyDog » Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:44 pm

Agreed. I like this idea but don't overdo it. Use the slowmo-meter as a mean of balancing different playing styles. If for example rifles become op make it harder for rifle users to gain slowmo points etc.

I don't really like the idea of the ability to "levling up" your slowmo. I like the idea of facing an opponent on some what equal terms for the majority of the encounters.
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Re: Idea: Slow-motion Meter

Postby Dan » Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:58 pm

ThinRedPaste wrote:be careful! You're travelling down a dangerous road toward the whole game being in slow motion.


I agree with this. The more you use a cool feature, the less cool it gets every single time. This is why those awesomely animated one-hit-kill melee takedowns in modern games are boring as hell thirty minutes into the game.

I like the idea of a slow motion meter that you have to fill up, but you can't use it until it's full, like TF2's medic ubercharge. That way you have something to work towards, and staying alive is more important because you lose the meter if you die. Assuming the slow motion powerup is still in the game, that would fill the meter all the way.
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Re: Idea: Slow-motion Meter

Postby ThinRedPaste » Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:10 pm

faggotron 5000 wrote:but you can't use it until it's full, like TF2's medic ubercharge. That way you have something to work towards, and staying alive is more important because you lose the meter if you die

harsh. bads would never ever get to slowmo at all like this.
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Re: Idea: Slow-motion Meter

Postby Wish » Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:19 pm

Half a second for a kill, full second for a stunt kill/special kill/whatever. Powerup gives three seconds. The meter would go up to five seconds like in the days of old.

That's how I'd do it.

I would not include an option to pause slo mo - when it's triggered, it goes until it's empty. Otherwise, you could have slow motion raves. The instances of everybody being forced into slow motion would increase. It could be jarring and potentially problematic for matters of flow.

Kills gotten while in slow motion should extend the slow motion by their normal slo mo value, and continuing slow motion kill streaks could have point multipliers. Actually, I don't know if I'd like this. But it's an idea.
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Re: Idea: Slow-motion Meter

Postby Dan » Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:31 pm

ThinRedPaste wrote:
faggotron 5000 wrote:but you can't use it until it's full, like TF2's medic ubercharge. That way you have something to work towards, and staying alive is more important because you lose the meter if you die

harsh. bads would never ever get to slowmo at all like this.


Maybe. If it turns out to be too harsh, the meter could carry over even through respawns, so you'd have to fill the meter eventually. Alternatively, just relax the requirements to fill the meter- maybe three kills in one life. Not impossible at all, even for a less skilled player.

I just like the idea of a meter you have to fill up instead of just getting instantly disposable slow motion for every stylish kill. I think that might have been how Max Payne 1 used bullet time(?) I don't really remember.
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Re: Idea: Slow-motion Meter

Postby Hadji|DP » Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:34 pm

faggotron 5000 wrote:
ThinRedPaste wrote:be careful! You're travelling down a dangerous road toward the whole game being in slow motion.


I agree with this. The more you use a cool feature, the less cool it gets every single time. This is why those awesomely animated one-hit-kill melee takedowns in modern games are boring as hell thirty minutes into the game.

I like the idea of a slow motion meter that you have to fill up, but you can't use it until it's full, like TF2's medic ubercharge. That way you have something to work towards, and staying alive is more important because you lose the meter if you die. Assuming the slow motion powerup is still in the game, that would fill the meter all the way.


Perhaps I should've attached some theoretical numbers to those theoretical situations. Much like a fighting game, each of these activities would fill a VERY SMALL AMOUNT of meter. Essentially, things that don't involve a kill (like shooting your gun) would give you 1 point of meter. Getting shot at would give you 2, Getting shot would give you 3, hitting someone would get you 4, and killing someone would get you 5. Headshots would give you 10, Stunts would give you 20, and you can see where this is going.

However, to fill one bar you need 100 points of meter. Meaning that theoretically, shooting your gun once (1) to hit someone (4) that results in a headshot (10) while stunting (20) would give you 35 points of meter. You would have to do this 3 TIMES in order to get a SMALL AMOUNT of slow-motion, not to mention that you've probably been shot at already, are at low health, and have less ammunition than when you started.

So essentially you would have to be REALLY GOOD to fill up a full bar (4 partitions), and the 4th partition would drain all your meter, but only gives you a measly 3 seconds of the Slow-Pause powerup from The Specialists. Essentially I'm thinking about a meter that does two things: Reward good players but not so much that they steamroll over bad players but gives them an advantage when pitted against good players who have mismanaged meter, and give bad players a chance to build meter to allow them to use the really awesome slow-motion features.

The point here is that from a gameplay perspective, a meter could bring some depth to players that isn't based on some exploit or some sort of dexterity demand but rather adds a new element of economy management that hasn't really been explored in multiplayer shooters. If anyone knows of shooters that did have some sort of economy management, please inform me so I can check them out, just as a general point of reference.

EDIT: Just to give another example, let's take how a bad player would be rewarded. Player A is being shot at by Player B. Player B unloads his entire pistol (15 shots) into player A. 2 Bullets hit Player A. Player B now has 21 points of meter (15 for shooting his gun at a player, 8 for hitting the player). However, Player A has 36 points of meter (30 from getting shot at, and 6 from getting hit). Both players did poorly, but Player A has more meter because Player B performed much worse than player A by not killing his opponent, and Player A is rewarded just for surviving. Of course, neither player has enough to cash their points in for slow motion, so if both die before they can make their investments count, they are both extremely terrible.

DOUBLE EDIT: Let's also add one more example, from one of the best action sequences of all time:

Chow Yun Fat and the Killer both fire 3 rounds each into each other, giving both of them the following points:

3 for shooting their guns 3 times at a player
6 for getting shot at 3 times
3 for getting hit once
4 for hitting once
----
16 points total awarded to both Chow Yun Fat and the Killer.

They then fire one round into each other, giving both of them the following points:

1 for shooting their guns once at a player
2 for getting shot at once
3 for getting hit once
4 for hitting once
----
10 points total awarded, for a grand total of 26 points.

Then they both throw their guns, and stunt and shoot. The Killer misses and Chow Yun Fat kills his opponent. The following points are awarded to Chow Yun Fat:

1 for shooting his gun once
4 for getting a successful hit once
5 for a kill
20 points for a stunting while killing
---
for a total of 30 points. The Killer respawns and has no more meter. Chow Yun Fat has low health but has 56 points of meter. If he plays well and gains more points, he can survive until he has a small amount of slow motion, and use that to escape a sticky situation if he were to come across The Killer again in the same life.

Hopefully these examples illustrate how meter management can reward bad and good players.*

*ANOTHER IDEA: An option that allows you to exchange each 2 points of meter for 1 point of HP. You do not need a set amount of points to activate this, unlike slowmotion which requires 100 points. So you have a choice: Regenerate health, or save it for slow motion. Any health over 100 would decay by 4 health per second (meaning that an overheal of 200 would only last for about 25 seconds).
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Re: Idea: Slow-motion Meter

Postby Antagonist » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:52 pm

Hey.

How about we try a few releases with no slow motion at all?
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Re: Idea: Slow-motion Meter

Postby Hadji|DP » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:54 pm

Antagonist wrote:Hey.

How about we try a few releases with no slow motion at all?


It wouldn't be action themed without slow motion, now would it?
Plus, how would newbies learn how to do stunt kills if they didn't have slowmotion as a crutch for a while?
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Re: Idea: Slow-motion Meter

Postby Antagonist » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:57 pm

If the game doesn't work without slow motion then it's not going to work with : (
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Re: Idea: Slow-motion Meter

Postby Hadji|DP » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:01 pm

Antagonist wrote:If the game doesn't work without slow motion then it's not going to work with : (


:(
I agree with you but I feel slowmotion would be integral to this game, both from an aesthetic and gameplay perspective. It would be like releasing a couple of versions of Counter-Strike without crosshairs, making you judge the center of the screen ALL THE TIME for EVERY WEAPON.

Which I've actually done before and the game becomes really fun, so I double agree with you. But I like challenges more than I like things being handed to me like a baby.
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