Stunts: How Could They be Changed?

No sólo tacos y guitarras.

Re: Stunts: How Could They be Changed?

Postby LazyDog » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:41 am

Vino wrote:I kinda want the game to stay in third person all the time. IE, no first person option at all. But I know that if I say that I will be shot down immediately so I don't say that.

I didn't say that BTW.


Good. Keep it unsaid. Dont mess with high, medium and low stunt mechanic plz. Its not stupid.
Image
Fukkdammit it I lost my "art picture" with the children the mother and the porn. And btw, I made TNR.
User avatar
LazyDog
 
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:18 pm

Re: Stunts: How Could They be Changed?

Postby TOGSolid » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:03 am

Vino wrote:
misanq wrote:What do you guys call a straight jab?


Straight jab.


misanq wrote:The cat roll exploit/thing-that-you-added-wasn't something that you could replicate in real life without hurting youself. The player model ball up directly above where it was standing and stay in the roll until after it landed; not something to do off of the second story of hammertime if you like bones. If that's the cat roll you added, then I'm wishing you to death right now for all the times I was left fighting a fu clan after the rest of the server gave up and left.


You really think I added an exploit?

If it's super roll you're talking about, I'm pretty sure I removed that exploit for 3.0. Super roll would be the most common name for it, I don't know why you call it a cat roll.

But hey, so far misan is an expert in:

Wikipedia

I guess being an expert in exploits isn't beneath you either.

Fixed.
ImageImageImage
User avatar
TOGSolid
 
Posts: 1843
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Ketchikan, Alaska

Re: Stunts: How Could They be Changed?

Postby Venge » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:24 am

Drop the common shift-to-walk binding, and make shift plus a directional key result in a dive.

Aside from that, keep it similar to TS. I feel that the way stunts worked in TS were almost perfectly streamlined.
Face witches get bitches.
User avatar
Venge
 
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:31 pm

Re: Stunts: How Could They be Changed?

Postby Vino » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:28 am

I will not entertain arguments of "keep it like TS because TS was perfect." This is not a vote. You need to either give an statement of why I should do it this way or that way or GTFO.
[ Tw | Fb | G+ ]
User avatar
Vino
We'll see
 
Posts: 3976
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 7:25 pm
Location: Cary, NC

Re: Stunts: How Could They be Changed?

Postby Venge » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:30 am

Having a context-sensitive button was a good way of handling stunts. Such an idea was ahead of its time for a game like TS, and it worked wonderfully, and it continues to work wonderfully in several other games (Mirrors Edge, Assassins Creed, etc).

How about that, Vino?
Face witches get bitches.
User avatar
Venge
 
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:31 pm

Re: Stunts: How Could They be Changed?

Postby Shogi » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:40 am

Are we talking about the same game? There was nothing actually context sensitive about TS' stunt button.
Image
User avatar
Shogi
 
Posts: 1374
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:02 pm

Re: Stunts: How Could They be Changed?

Postby Venge » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:42 am

Shogi wrote:Are we talking about the same game? There was nothing actually context sensitive about TS' stunt button.


Walljump, face away, press stunt button. -> Walldive

Move in a direction, press stunt button -> dive towards that direction.

Crouch, look down, press stunt button -> roll

It's not quite so pronounced as some other games, but it's certainly context sensitive.
Face witches get bitches.
User avatar
Venge
 
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:31 pm

Re: Stunts: How Could They be Changed?

Postby Shogi » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:03 am

Oh right, forgot about those.
Image
User avatar
Shogi
 
Posts: 1374
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:02 pm

Re: Stunts: How Could They be Changed?

Postby Vino » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:05 am

And what's not context sensitive about the controls that I posted?
[ Tw | Fb | G+ ]
User avatar
Vino
We'll see
 
Posts: 3976
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 7:25 pm
Location: Cary, NC

Re: Stunts: How Could They be Changed?

Postby Venge » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:05 am

Vino wrote:And what's not context sensitive about the controls that I posted?


Nothing, I think they are fine too.

Well, aside from pressing the stunt button while not moving makes you prone. I could see a lot of frustration coming from that.
Face witches get bitches.
User avatar
Venge
 
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:31 pm

Re: Stunts: How Could They be Changed?

Postby Minimum » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:09 am

I would like to have the choice between first and third person modes. In TS I used both modes frequently. They both have their benefits.

The first person mode is great for when you are shooting guns or you are in a tight space. If we also took the Mirror's Edge route and added immersion features such as realistic camera movement and being able to see your own body it would be pretty awesome. I bet that a lot of people would actually prefer this mode for melee then since you would have a good sense of your "body".

That's just my $0.02.
User avatar
Minimum
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:17 pm

Re: Stunts: How Could They be Changed?

Postby Afion » Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:42 am

Aside from the looks of the game, I really liked Mirror's Edge parcours feeling and was kinda hoping to see this in this game as well. I would love to see Mirror's Edge style of horizontal movement with vaulting, sliding and wallrunning but with less strafing restrictions. Stunts would obviously also still be available: high, med and low dives, flips and rolls. As for vertical movement, maybe you could do something like Prince of Persia, with vertical wallrunning, ledge grabbing and walljumps. Assassins Creed style of climbing would be awesome but I imagine doing all the animations for that would be near impossible.
User avatar
Afion
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:35 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Stunts: How Could They be Changed?

Postby TheOtherChris » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:07 am

I think keeping the stunts (not the exact mechanics of them, but the stunts themselves) from TS and adding is a good idea. I think look elevation controlling the stunts and their elevation is also a good idea to keep in some form. Just gotta give each a distinct role:

"Falling" stunts
ProTip: show
Rolling: Low profile, does not scale things, least noise (if lightweight)/ lots of noise (if heavy). Short range, no elevation. No shooting. Basically a low yield evation move. Does not roll under obstacles, but can end in a slide that does.

Catroll: Med profile, climbs low obstructions, slightly more noise but basically soundless (unless heavy). Mid range, low elevation. No shooting. Evation, get away fast! And also a low profile way of scaling obstacles.

Sliding: Low profile finish, holding crouch from any jump or stunt lands it in a slide. Since it doesn't scale anything it can slide you into cover. Mid range, no elevation. Shooting galore. Slide to cover! Or slide to shoot someone in the dick to mix up your perspective and hit boxes. Slides under obstacles.

Diving: mid profile, TS/Max Payne style. Can end you in prone turret position (á la Collateral) through player choice. Long range, mid-high elevation. Shooting bonanza during its execution. Flies above obstacles or clears them with a "kong"-movement from parkour if too low.

"Matrix dodge" sitt on your ass: Reimagined as a special shooting tactic you can shoot from, look straight down and press stunt or double tap crouch w/e = sitt on your ass. No range, no elevation. Shooting through its entirety. When you're staring down the wrong end of a shotgun and need a split second stunt that drops you to the floor. Exposes your balls as a target upon landing.

Double leg take down: Or rudby tackle. Dive, roll or slide + melee does a shoot for the opponent's legs. If do right, no can defend. Beware of face shots from opponent. Used to obstruct fast players, perhaps in a team game or just to catch a "Specialist". Drops the opponent on his back.

Jump stunts:
ProTip: show
Jump and hold to scale obstacles: Scales low walls from midsection level to as high as you can jump (with different, context sensitive animations). Elevation over obstacles, range depends on the length of the jump. No shooting. Used to get around.

"Wall hump": Reimagined as a wallrun. Perhaps only holding the jump key at a high enough wall runs you up until you reach a ledge. If no ledge is available you can choose to drop down by doing nothing (like in Mirror's Edge you get a split second of clinging to decide where to go next), jump off with jump, jump flip off with double jump, dive off with stunt or slide down with crouch. Works both horizontally and vertically. In horizontal running you can cancel into a melee strike. Shooting during the horizontal run and all the off wall stunts. Used to get around, dodge/mix up hitboxes and to style on opponents.

Jump flip: Scales walls without the climb anymation, or stops you on walls for a second if you are too close and hit a wall (like, stomping away from the wall, imagine something a cyborg ninja would do). Can cancel into grabbing and scaling a wall by holding the jump key. High elevation, long range. No shooting, first few shots on landing count as a stunt kill (gradually increasing coolness meter from the stunt carries over into the kill, making it more of a combo from God of War, DMC or Ninja Gaiden than a TS stunt kill). Used to style on people and to scale high obstructions without a climb animation for quickness. Also used to set up wall stunts.

Gainer: Basically a Jump flip mechanism, but it's more like a back flip going forward. Can be used as attack (like Bruce Lee and Tom Cruise). Same as Jump flip but when sprinting. Slightly different elevation and less control.

Jump dive: Dive from a jump. When done backwards it works like an olympic high jump. Can continue into slide, in case of back flip it's a kneeling backwards slide.

Now a lot of people get a hissy fit when "getting stuck on the ground" mechanics are thrown in here. But here's the thing: Maybe moving on the ground would be quick, a short stun when first landing but then players are almost as mobile on their bellies and backs as on their feet (depending on weight). (look at 1.24 on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSG_VTK1Djc to get the idea.)
TheOtherChris
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:42 am

Re: Stunts: How Could They be Changed?

Postby misanq » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:11 am

ProTip: show
Vino wrote:Straight jab.

Image

misanq wrote:You really think I added an exploit?

To be honest, you definitely made it sound like you added the super roll, yes. I apologize getting the names mixed up, but it was like four years ago. :s

Either way, I don't understand why you're supermad all of a sudden and I think it's kind of lame that you had to fill most of that list with stuff we've never talked about to make the joke work. What's more, you could have so easily gone with something like movies or relationship advice or anything else other than the stuff that I'm actually an "expert" on. :|
I feel can say without the slightest pang of arrogance that my 120 credits of political science/career waitressing makes me a whole lot more qualified to talk about history and politics than delusional racists and wing nut conspiracy theorists like norsigblahblah and mangaas. I'd go as far as to say that the average person on the street has a better grasp of those subjects than either those two (or do you also believe that j00z control the world and holocaust was a Christian crusade :roll:)? Likewise, unless someone here is secretly an elite equestrian competitor, you'd better believe that I'm an expert on horseriding in comparison to a stable hand who can't ride without risking his life and a bunch of people who don't know anything about riding at all. I can't decide what was the most ridiculous aspect of that episode, a bunch of people who didn't know the first thing about what was being discussed thought that they could weigh in or that you guys seem to think that being a stable hand at a dude ranch does make a person an expert on riding. And, the guy just got fired from said job too, so there's that also.

And I think that trying to marginalise my opinion about games like that is pretty weak also. How many professional game developers do we have around here again? One?



I was on the fence about third-person-only so I made a little check list of all the the pros and cons of the idea in my head the other day and this is pretty much what I got.

Pros:
"You'd actually be able to see all the cool stunt animations."
Easier to see what's going on when you stunt.
Easier to karate.
No first person modeling or animation needed.
Mappers can potentially get away with lower res textures.
Cover system.


Cons:
Weapons can sometimes feel puny or samey.
Scoped weapons don't usually work too well.
Possibly less immersion.
The camera can mess up near walls unless it's directly over your shoulder as it was in 3.0.
The player model can obscure your view unless you do the transparent thing from TS.
Cover system.

(Feel free to add your own).

I don't know, I personally feel the benefits just about outweigh what you lose from first person mode and looking at games like edit: uncharted 2, I think that a lot of the problems with weapons can be overcome. But on the other hand, first person guns a usually a lot more fun to me.
Last edited by misanq on Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
misanq
 
Posts: 1007
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:45 am

Re: Stunts: How Could They be Changed?

Postby mangaas » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:53 am

I'm not sure if you're serious, or being sarcastic about the 3rd person only, but have at this:



Whatever way you do it, I don't actually think it will change much. I mean, it will change the way the game will be played a bit, but I don't' think it will make it that much worse or better. So I don't think it's some huge risk to do it all one way. Diving around and shooting ala max payne or hitman, can be just as fun.

Just as long as it doesn't work like the shitty-ass 3rd person from TS. That was the most god awful 3rd person aiming in any game, EVER.

*EDIT* hmm, youtube video doesn't seem to be playing, here's another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKWMTJiu_hs
User avatar
mangaas
 
Posts: 1965
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:35 am

PreviousNext

Return to Double Action Development

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron