da_trainingday, now with 100% fewer game beaking bugs.

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da_trainingday, now with 100% fewer game beaking bugs.

Postby misanq » Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:41 am

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Still a fair bit of texturing and detailing to go, but the layout and major details are pretty much solid at this point. Also it won't crash the game anymore if you shoot near the staircases, which is a plus.
It seems to flow pretty well with bots and I can't see any gameplay problems with it so far, so have a go of it and let me know what you think. Also, if you have any suggestions for extra details or layout changes, I'm listening.

Known bugs:
- The stair textures and yellow safety lines go funny at long range. I think it's a problem with the mip maps.
- The rain sounds penetrate some of the floors.

Next version:
- More posters and graffiti. (If anyone has a movie poster in particular that they would like to nominate or want to make a fake movie poster or advertisment, let me know.)
- More signs and station maps and whatnot.
- Better lighting.
- Trains either on a random timer or activated by a player trying to walk down the train tunnels (if anyone knows how to do this, some help would be appreciated).
- Better thunder sounds.



Also the vtf is up on dropbox if you want to have a look at it and I took the liberty of adding it to the maplist and cycle.
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Re: da_trainingday, now with 100% fewer game beaking bugs.

Postby Vino » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:02 pm

Checked out the vtf, looks like you moved all of the inside stuff to being entities, which is good, because as you can tell it removed those crashes. Definite improvements in performance and compile time as well. I'll throw the map into the map cycle for the next version and now we can start testing it.

Trouble is that now the engine thinks your entire map is one huge box. If you go into Hammer and look on the right where it says "visgroups" and choose the "auto" tab, turn off the "world details" and "entities" checkmarks. What's left is what the engine uses to calculate visibility. You can think of it as how the engine sees the game world when it decides which players can see each other. On Training Day, it's just a huge box with no internal features to block player line of sight. That means that every player can see every other player, which means that the game has to send every player information about every other player. That's a lot of network traffic. With 8 players in a server that's 28 messages, with 16 players it's 120 messages, you can see that gets big quick. That's a waste because usually only three or four players max can see each other at a time, even in large servers, and 4 players is only 6 messages. All those messages add up and can cause a lot of lag.

What you have to do is leave some of the inside walls and floors to create separations between the map's different areas. Keep the inside walls and floors that are large and won't cut up the map too much, but leave things like pillars and signs that don't do much to partition areas.

After you do a build go to the map menu and choose "load portal file" and a bunch of blue lines should appear. This shows where the compiler has broken up the world according to where your brushes are. Your goal is to split the map up into sections as much as possible, but also keep the blue lines to a minimum. I've done this same optimization with maps like jah streets and double trouble, so you can take a look at those to see how I chose which brushes to make entities and which ones to leave.

I should make a video of all this or something so I don't have to explain it to mappers over and over.
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Re: da_trainingday, now with 100% fewer game beaking bugs.

Postby Dementei » Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:18 pm

Yeaa Vino that would be cool if you made video for optimization n shet. Good job Misan, we should test it next weekend.
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Re: da_trainingday, now with 100% fewer game beaking bugs.

Postby Daniel » Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:24 pm

Looks pretty good.
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Re: da_trainingday, now with 100% fewer game beaking bugs.

Postby misanq » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:31 am

Vino wrote:What you have to do is leave some of the inside walls and floors to create separations between the map's different areas. Keep the inside walls and floors that are large and won't cut up the map too much, but leave things like pillars and signs that don't do much to partition areas.

For the central top areas, would it be better for visibility to have one long central world brush and detail the extruding bits or should I make it out of block segments?
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Re: da_trainingday, now with 100% fewer game beaking bugs.

Postby Vino » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:56 am

Block segments should be okay unless they start cutting up everything else in the level too. I would use the load portal file feature and let that be your guide. The goal is to minimize the amount of blue that the load portal feature shows, while still having enough division of areas to be useful. Sometimes I go for one big brush and sometimes I need to break it up to make my life easier. Use your best discretion.
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Re: da_trainingday, now with 100% fewer game beaking bugs.

Postby misanq » Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:25 am

Ok, I updated the dropbox with an optimized version. The main problem is that the bottom area is effectively all columns and freestanding walls, so it's still pretty much just one big room. Also, yeah a video would really help as the source wiki doesn't even have an entry on portal files.
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Re: da_trainingday, now with 100% fewer game beaking bugs.

Postby Vino » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:43 am

That's because the source wiki is about as helpful on things in general as a hobo on a ham sandwich. ... or am I confusing my analogies?

There's not much you can do in general about the downstairs being all one gigantic room without changing the map layout, which I honestly wouldn't be against, because my intuition is that this map would suffer from "great long room syndrome". But AS USUAL we'll playtest it and we'll see what it's like and then we'll figure out what it's like and then we'll talk about what to do with it.
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