Skill system revamp.

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Re: Skill system revamp.

Postby ThinRedPaste » Thu May 09, 2013 1:04 am

vino is obviously quoting me there. except when I said it it was true.
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Re: Skill system revamp.

Postby misanq » Thu May 09, 2013 2:04 am

This thread really wasn't supposed to be for skub fighting over whats and how-nots, people. The important part is trying to make style skills more interesting and fun and since most people seem to like the idea of special abilities, we have something to work towards. You guys can work out the specifics of the special abilities later on and there's no reason to flip out over stuff that can't get into the game without animation work, because there will be plenty of time to work it out.
Also, I think that at this point it's not constructive to be talking about abilities and features you don't like. If you don't like brawl, stunts, grenades etc. rather than focusing on what should be verboten, try to think of alternatives that you do like.

Consider as well where the game would be right now if when Lithe had shown up a while back with his stunt patch he'd been told to GTFO of our no stunts club. Would akimbos be in the game? Would there be code for pickups? Would vino still be doing all the work? Making concessions for stuff that people liked in TS has advantages, particularly as far as getting them to play the game and like it is concerned.
More so, it's important to remember that a lot of the reason that certain aspects of TS were like they were, was down to morfeo having a fistful of bad ideas and total control over development. Slashing and burning entire aspects of what made TS popular because you're afraid of that they'll turn out the way they did when a chronically inconsistent matrixo-phile was calling the shots could ultimately hurt the game's replayability and turn away players.
And really, it's absolutely true that if something sucks it probably won't be around that long. I mean, remember how the rifle couldn't do stunts? Remember how you were supposed to run around with it aimed in all the time and it was going to have ironsights? Remember how you used to turn gold when you filled the style meter? Remember how the 1911 took like five shots to kill people? DAB has sailed the seas of bad ideas and come out as a pretty fun game already, have a bit of faith.

shmopaloppa wrote:did matrix bullet dodge really ruin TS?

It ruined the game plenty of times for me when I accidentally activated it and died. Seriously though, I would doubt that being able to dodge one bullet every few seconds would really even matter to the 1911, let alone autos. Not that reflexes really needs anything extra.
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Re: Skill system revamp.

Postby Dementei » Thu May 09, 2013 4:41 am

I have faith in our team and in Vino when it comes to developing DA. The very beginning of all this starts with Vino, he wouldn't let this game go down the drain, and misan is right that we have really come a long way with all these different ideas and the good ones have come through. We shouldn't be afraid of trying new things, sure they may sound similar to things in TS but it definitely wouldn't turn out that way because we know what's fair to players. Anyway what we need to consider now is, how strong/weak do we want our perks to be in the game? They either stay simple perks or they actually become a class. With misans revamp it would make the perks more bold and apparent as a class, I'm not sure if that's what we want but it's up to Vino/Lithe/Schmop since it's work they have to do.
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Re: Skill system revamp.

Postby Antagonist » Thu May 09, 2013 5:19 am

When throwing ideas around, I hope that everyone is on the same page here. I believe that sharing ideas in this way is a good way to get something moving on a small scale. I am just throwing things out there you guys, and I think most of us are just trying to do that as well. I don't have any ambition to get my ideas full-on implemented in the game. I just hope to be able to contribute by starting a thought with the developers. Maybe 1 % of an idea that was influenced by the idea I had will be implemented. This game has a long way to go and I suspect we will see versions that some people will absolutely hate one way or the other, no matter how small or incremental the changes from version to version are. So yeah. I think that sharing ideas is a sane way to get everyone involved. Some of them may be invalidated, some ideas may emerge as a "holy shit, why didn't we think of this?" thing.

Vino does have a vision for this project. He even mentioned that scrapbook and design documents guiding development, right? So that the game won't stray too far into TS 3.0 territory before he'll notice.
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Re: Skill system revamp.

Postby Vino » Thu May 09, 2013 11:17 am

I think you guys give me a little bit too much credit, but misan said the key thing here:

misan wrote:rather than focusing on what should be verboten, try to think of alternatives that you do like.

Ideas are fragile, but they're one of the most valuable assets we have. I hate to see people shooting down ideas because they think they have the ultimate vision for a game. I never want to be the person doing that, and I hope some people in this thread will remember that and avoid shooting down ideas with strong language. Disagreeing with an idea is okay, but saying, "That idea is crap and wrong and should NEVER be implemented!" is harmful to the game's development and contrary to the way we've designed the game thus far.

Now I hope we can get back to the previous discussion on style skills, because I liked the way it was before it became a shooting gallery.
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Re: Skill system revamp.

Postby ThinRedPaste » Thu May 09, 2013 1:04 pm

I just don't want us making the same mistakes that were made in the later stages of TS3's beta phase. The stuff about melee and weaker guns/armor/longer fights was almost word for word what was said back then and look how that turned out.
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Re: Skill system revamp.

Postby vez » Thu May 09, 2013 4:42 pm

Alright lets get back on topic. Here are some of my ideas and thoughts on the current skill system and how to possibly improve on it.

Skill systems / perks

Thoughts on Current perks:
I think double run speed is a bad idea and should be nerfed down to like 20-25% speed boost
Possibley add something like a double tap dodge/dash(Unreal Style)

Haven't used it seems usless

Seems good atm

I like is but might need a nerf of some sort

Haven't used it and again doesn't seem very useful

Health regen should be slower over time or some other sort of nerf
-15% run speed when hurt?

New Perk Ideas:
Variable dive height(TS Style)
create new skill or put on reflexes?

Picking Perks for kills(Yes this idea was taken from CoD)
1st perk = 3 kills
2nd perk = 6 kills
3rd perk = 9 kills
12 kills = all player perks?
Exclude nitro?

Adding weapon skills/perks/attachments:
Perks or skills you pick insted/in place of the player perks

Things such as:
Hollow Points or Full metal jackets(incrace damage)
Extended Mags
Akimbos(SMGs or mixed akimbos)
Laser Sight(decreased spread)
Double Down(picking 2 weapon perks for getting kills)
2 kills = fist perk or attachment
4 kills = second perk or attachment

Speical perks/weapons:
The Contender*(You get a Contender g2 and thats all you get)
very slow reload
1 hit kill to head/chest?
2 hit kill everywhere else?
Ammo ammount dependent on getting kills?(start ammo 3-5 shots?)
+1 ammo on kill
+2 ammo on back to back kill shots
+3 ammo on 1 shot 2 kills

Dirty Harry*(You get a big ass revolver and thats it)
Massive recoil
Low start ammo (24 rounds)
1 Hit kill 2 head
2 hit kill everywhere else

M79(get an m79 alongside other weapons)
Only 1 shots to start? (get a second shot for getting a kill?)

*Contender/Revolver can be droped but not picked up and no ammo pickups
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Re: Skill system revamp.

Postby Antagonist » Thu May 09, 2013 4:54 pm

What if nitrophiliac's grenades were pipebombs instead? Give them a very bright flashing red lights, like in the movies. Along with that, give it a 7 second fuse instead of 5, to make it less liable to fuck people up at close range. In the current version, I find that grenade kills are easy to score due to how hard they are to spot more than anything else. I tried going nitro in a game today and it supercharged my kills somewhat ridiculously because people were just minding their business trying to kill each other or chase after me. I think that it'd make for much more planned murders if the bombs were super visible and just didn't blow up so quickly.

Also, Marksman's final form should have drastically lowered recoil to make it worth picking the class at all.
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