Grenade Options

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Grenade Options

Postby TheCorp303 » Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:40 pm

One of the most common criticisms I see from people who I know that have played DA is "games awesome, but grenades are kinda OP" or just "I had more fun playing with people who didn't use them".

I was thinking of either a server-specific cvar or a gamemode option where you have choices of:

1. Standard
2. Reduced Damage/splash
3. Limited number per round
4. Disabled

Now I do know with options 1~3 it can kinda throw some people off while say jumping from one game/server to another, so id take it there would be either in server tags or on the splash loading screen show right to the player what option is set. Just my 2cents
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Re: Grenade Options

Postby Black_Stormy » Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:40 am

I was in a server last night with 16 people (I think that's the first timeI have played on a full server) and they were spamming grenades. I think my average lifespan was under a second. For me nades are a bit unpredictable. Sometimes the aoe is seemingly gigantic and other times I hardly get hurt. I think it has to do with the game trying to calculate blocking the blast according to BSP walls etc. We should add in a vote option to disable grenades, or give them half damage - alongside the 'change map' votes.
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Re: Grenade Options

Postby The_Silver » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:08 pm

Do grenades have zero inventory weight? In my little playthrough I bet I've always chosen them because they never limited me to carry two other weapons. Maybe giving them a slot weight will make players less prone to choose them all the times, as it is now I see no reason to not equip the grenade.
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Re: Grenade Options

Postby Black_Stormy » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:30 pm

This is true. I alsways have room for one grenade. Maybe we can just up the weight so it's kinda rifle/shotgun + pistol or nade + akimbos?
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Re: Grenade Options

Postby Vino » Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:42 pm

I'll tone them down next version.
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Re: Grenade Options

Postby SilberWulff » Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:41 pm

I think a cool idea that'd make grenades less of a problem, is if diving or sliding away from them reduces the damage they do. I'd give that cool feeling where the hero always jumps away from an explosion and survives. :P
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Re: Grenade Options

Postby Scout » Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:43 pm

SilberWulff wrote:I think a cool idea that'd make grenades less of a problem, is if diving or sliding away from them reduces the damage they do. I'd give that cool feeling where the hero always jumps away from an explosion and survives. :P


Actually, it already works this way. Diving away from an explosion gives you style, reduces damage from the grenade, and gives your jump a slight speed boost. As a bonus, it looks cool!
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Re: Grenade Options

Postby SilberWulff » Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:21 pm

Scout wrote:Actually, it already works this way. Diving away from an explosion gives you style, reduces damage from the grenade, and gives your jump a slight speed boost. As a bonus, it looks cool!


Ha, guess I never noticed from all the times I've died doing this. Then again my health is always so low.
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Re: Grenade Options

Postby Penguininnabox » Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:37 am

I would argue its not the damage a single grenade does that's the problem, its the sheer VOLUME of grenades being tossed at any moment in a 16 player game. Think of something like Rooftops; everyone fights in 1 or 2 main areas, and there's minor 1-on-1 on the way there. All the grenades are going to be thrown at the bigger fight, of course, that's just common sense. And it is FINE when its around 6-8 players, just dive in the other direction and go get some kills to return your health back. But as you ad more players, more possible grenades enter the mix. Now its not 1 nade to dodge, now its 3 (I've seen this shit!). So please don't nerf the grenades themselves and make them worthless, just limit the carry amount in some way.
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Re: Grenade Options

Postby Scout » Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:17 pm

The other thing about open areas like the top of rooftops is that you can arc a grenade real high such that, when it finally comes down into the combat area, the fuse is too short to have time to dodge.

This may or may not be the only way I can get a kill.
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Re: Grenade Options

Postby Vino » Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:22 pm

I'm going to nerf them as a temporary measure because something needs to be done, but the plan has been for a while to provide some other equipment secondary that you can get instead of grenades. That would cut down the number of grenades by half, as half of people will grab the other thing instead of the grenades.

I don't have a solid idea of what that secondary equipment will be yet though, my best idea is a helmet that blocks headshots. That idea definitely needs playtest it may turn out to be horrible, but you guys could help my offering some suggestions. Here are some rough guidelines:

* It takes the same inventory spot as a grenade
* Should be at least as useful as a grenade
* Could be explosive but of a different kind (proximity? meh.)
* Nothing that inteferes with other players movements like tripwires
* Try to stay orthogonal to other existing features, for example brass knuckles are basically the same thing as Bouncer

And don't bother suggesting body armor, I didn't like how it was done in TS and I don't think it would be a good addition to DA.
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Re: Grenade Options

Postby TheSlideRule12 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:10 pm

For the temporary fix I'd recommend making people unable to pick up grenades and instead of adding a grenade on respawn, give it a set time respawn somewhere between 2-3 minutes. As someone already said the grenades themselves are fine, it's just the incredible volume of them that come flying at you in a full game. As far a alternatives:

1. Throwing knives/stars- 5 per spawn. Would take 6 to kill someone from full health on body shots. Head shots do double damage. Say 40% higher air speed than grenades.

2. Mustard Gas- Does say .1 % damage per second someone is in the gas cloud. Gas cloud lasts for 30 seconds.

3. "Sticky" gloves- Lets you climb up any vertical surface and give you limited distance climbing across ceilings. Gives you 40% greater climbing speed. Jump to a wall and hold jump to initiative a "wall slide". Holding back makes you slide down the wall faster (as does firing any one handed weapon). Holding forward makes you slide down slower until you stop (stop distance is increased while firing a one handed weapon) and start climbing up. Using a two handed weapon makes you start falling. While on a wall hitting stunt button does a backflip. Hitting a left, right or back and the stunt button makes you dive off the wall in the given direction. If you are on the ground facing a wall, press against it and hit jump to start climbing up.

Edit: One more idea

4. PCP- For some limited amount of time the benefits are 75% melee damage reduction, immunity to execution, 10% bullet damage reduction, and +2 second of slow-mo for every kill. Disadvantages are no fine aim, +20% reload time, +10% recoil, -10% dive/slide distance.
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Re: Grenade Options

Postby Vino » Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:08 pm

A dude on Facebook suggested something similar to this PCP suggestion and it's now my new favorite idea to dilute grenades. We'll give it a shot after the steam release. In my mind it's a bit simpler than this suggestion though, it would just recover a little health.
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Re: Grenade Options

Postby Dementei » Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:54 pm

PCP to take over grenades? What about the explosive alternatives, like a grenade launcher spawned in the map randomly generated with only a few rounds? Adds to the objectives as well.
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Re: Grenade Options

Postby Black_Stormy » Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:09 pm

What about discouraging nadespam? I'm thinking less and less style for each grenade thrown. Not globally, but maybe monitor the time between nades and grant less style points if the player is throwing them too frequently. Or even lessen the throw distance each time, as if the character is getting tired. That would result in throwing grenades at your own feet and you would need to give your arm a rest.
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