Double Action Boogaloo Version 1.0 Feature List

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Re: Action Boogaloo Version 1.0 Feature List

Postby ThinRedPaste » Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:22 am

Vino wrote:
There's been a lot of concerns about double tap rolling. We might end up doing that in addition to this, it'd be worth testing out. We'll see.


I recall concerns about double tapping movement keys for stunts, but wish meant double tapping crouch, how it is in TS. that seems ok to me.

something else im not thrilled with is the mention of shotguns getting an accuracy boost when aimed in. unless the aim in animation has your dude attach a choke, this doesn't make sense. Unless, of course, the whole grouping of pellets can be slightly off center (not much, just enough to make it so the spread might end up like 60/40 favoring one side) and aiming in fixes that.

re: aim in with guns that dont benefit from it
Fuck me dead, I actually agree with misan. Some alternate set of animations, like TS's gangsta pistolas. hold the aim button and instead of actually aiming, you just style on your enemies a little.
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Re: Action Boogaloo Version 1.0 Feature List

Postby Vino » Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:24 am

Hadji: That's an idea

misanq wrote:If you're going to give aim-in to weapons that gain no benifit from it, might I suggest doing the old TS thing of having it toggle a different hand grip?


That's also an idea, albeit one that requires additional art. We'll see.

misanq wrote:Also, how is speed and better jumping going to compare to the advantages of slow mo or health regen?


Since the health regen is temporary I think it holds up well if it also increases rof and reload time and that sort of thing. We'll see how the testing goes.

misanq wrote:Also, I think the capture the flag mode people were talking about would add a lot of depth to the game for relatively little work,


Haha not really.

misanq wrote:Also, do you have a select fire option in mind?


Fairly easy to add, but in my experience it tends to make balancing the weapons much harder. We'll see.
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Re: Action Boogaloo Version 1.0 Feature List

Postby Dan » Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:30 am

ThinRedPaste wrote:something else im not thrilled with is the mention of shotguns getting an accuracy boost when aimed in. unless the aim in animation has your dude attach a choke, this doesn't make sense. Unless, of course, the whole grouping of pellets can be slightly off center (not much, just enough to make it so the spread might end up like 60/40 favoring one side) and aiming in fixes that.


Do hard science and super realism matter if it works for gameplay?

I'm not sure if that kind of accuracy boost would make sense in game, but basing all of our decisions on realism seems to be the wrong way to go. For a tactical shooter I would agree, but not really for this.
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Re: Action Boogaloo Version 1.0 Feature List

Postby Vino » Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:52 am

Actually I'm not so thrilled about reducing spread for shotguns in aim-in mode. Spread actually helps the player aim, especially for pulse-fire weapons like a shotgun. You don't have to be exactly on-target to deal damage. You'll find that weapons with very high accuracy can actually be more difficult to use and shotguns with tight spread are no exception. If the spread tightens up enough it turns into more of a slug.

One solution (a poor one though) is to have not only all of the pellets in the shotgun blast spread, but also the whole spread pattern have varying degrees of inaccuracy when you're not aimed in. That way the entire shot is more accurate during aim-in without the spread being tighter. I don't like that much though, I can't think of a single shotgun in any game that behaves like that and it just doesn't seem like a solid system for shotguns in general.

In the end I'll probably take the recoil reduction and fov tightening to be enough of an aim-in advantage for the shotgun, and reduce the movement speed penalty a bit to make up for the lack of extra accuracy.
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Re: Action Boogaloo Version 1.0 Feature List

Postby misanq » Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:58 am

Vino wrote:That's also an idea, albeit one that requires additional art. We'll see.

I figured that aiming in would require an animation anyway. No?

misanq wrote:Haha not really.

Anything that breaks up the monotony of deathmatch is a sound investment, I think. Plus there's also 'easier' stuff like king of the hill, point capture, headquarters...


faggotron 5000 wrote:Do hard science and super realism matter if it works for gameplay?

In the case of shotgun accuracy? Yes, absolutely. If there's one thing that will break people's suspension of disbelief, its a shotgun that tightens it's pattern when you aim in.

Also, is the manual pump thing going to make a comeback? I always thought that that was cool.
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Re: Action Boogaloo Version 1.0 Feature List

Postby mangaas » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:06 am

The Neo tokyo mod let shot-gunners load slugs in with regular shotgun ammo.

It was a kinda cool secondary option.
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Re: Action Boogaloo Version 1.0 Feature List

Postby Venge » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:11 am

mangaas wrote:The Neo tokyo mod let shot-gunners load slugs in with regular shotgun ammo.

It was a kinda cool secondary option.


I could see this being pretty awesome. Maybe in the loadout menu, have an option to start loaded with slugs or shells? And then switching between the two takes twice the duration of a regular reload action.

Though that might be a little bit too unwieldy.
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Re: Action Boogaloo Version 1.0 Feature List

Postby Vino » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:48 am

misanq wrote:I figured that aiming in would require an animation anyway. No?


Point.

Guys remember that just because it's not in this version doesn't mean it's not in at all. Manual pumping, slugs, more game modes, these are all possible in future versions. What I'm asking is, what does the first version of TS need to be a complete game. We can always add more later, and there'll be plenty of later. (Or at least a couple billion years before the sun explodes.)
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Re: Action Boogaloo Version 1.0 Feature List

Postby Wish » Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:11 am

Your list as it stands is definitely sufficient for a complete game. You just don't want to think about really pouring on the PR until 1.5 or 2.0, when some of these luxury features are in there. Your eventual playerbase is kind of a zero sum - you want as many of them as possible to have an especially good first impression. ie; not the bare bones early builds.

In other words, what you've got here is perfectly fine as long as you're playing it close to the chest. But you want it to have a little more meat on its bones before you invite the whole world to indulge in this thundering bonanza of wholesome family fun.
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Re: Action Boogaloo Version 1.0 Feature List

Postby Vino » Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:36 am

Sure, I agree with that.
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Re: Action Boogaloo Version 1.0 Feature List

Postby Len » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:40 am

Looks solid, Vino.
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Re: Action Boogaloo Version 1.0 Feature List

Postby Hadji|DP » Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:10 pm

For an early playable build, 6 guns are a good idea just to get a feel for how the game should play before released to a general public. However, I cannot get over the feeling that your normal, everyday FPS player will see the 6 guns and think "wtf? is it 1999 all over again?"

Before a general release i feel there should be at least double that number (4 pistols, 4 smgs, 2 shotguns and 2 rifles) that are only slightly different to at least for the beginning releases. that still is too small of a number, but its at least not just 6 guns.
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Re: Action Boogaloo Version 1.0 Feature List

Postby Antagonist » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:36 pm

Fuck, mister. It's not about how many guns you have.

I'm going to name an example, but I know I will be flamed because you're not allowed to appreciate successful video games here. So yeah. Okay.

Halo: Reach has 12 guns in multiplayer and the game is extremely balanced; the most polished and best Halo game yet. It has a big following and many hardcore fans.

As long as you can make the gun fun and require different tactics; have advantages and drawbacks that make each gun unique, the game will have a passable arsenal. You can't just throw in guns because "it looks a bit empty without a lot of guns". Even if we can't make a AAA game, we can at least learn from the AAA studios and understand that filler isn't necessarily more fun. Well thought out guns please. : (
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Re: Action Boogaloo Version 1.0 Feature List

Postby Hadji|DP » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:37 pm

Good point, Antag. I too think we can learn from AAA titles even if this isn't suppose to be an AAA game. Really, though, I feel that regardless of your production values, as long as you have a game with well defined mechanics and rules it'll be a good game.
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Re: Action Boogaloo Version 1.0 Feature List

Postby Wish » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:42 pm

Don't forget the illusion of a lot of guns - different firearms with identical properties ie, 9mm CZ75 15+1 = 9mm 92FS 15+1 = no balance problems, but two guns instead of one.
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